Crossover Parts Replacement.

[BugC]

Hi All,

Would like to seek your advice on replacing old parts of the crossover. I just got a pair of Altec N1201-8A crossovers. I would like to replace the old caps with new ones. Does it have to be exactly the same value? ... Will changing the 16uF caps with 15uF caps and the 21uF caps with 22uF caps drastically change the performance of the crossover. Am also thinking of changing the resistors with Mills wirewound of the same value. Is this a good idea? Thanks in advance to your advice.

Cheers!
BugC

[bowtie427ss]

If necessary you can parallel caps to acheive the exact values you need.

If you change the value from what it was originally, you're changing the crossover point and likely the characteristics of the system.

just my .02 y'all understand..........

[StuWelwood]

It really depends upon the tolerances of the original and replacement caps. For example, if the originals were +/-20% (Sure hope they're not that sloppy in a crossover!), then replacing them with a slightly different value but much tighter tolerance, say 5% or even 1%, may not make much difference. Since this is a critical part in the application that you're using it, I have to agree with bowtie on this - make up the designed values by using multiple parts of suitable tolerance in parallel or series, as required. Or you could keep looking for a source for singles that have close tolerance, right value, and the desired type.

Stuart

[BugC]

Hi Bowtie/Stuart!
Thanks for the advice! Though the old parts still work fine, think I have to get new parts with the same values just in case the old parts fail.
Cheers!
BugC

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by Stuart Welwood:
It really depends upon the tolerances of the original and replacement caps. For example, if the originals were +/-20% (Sure hope they're not that sloppy in a crossover!), then replacing them with a slightly different value but much tighter tolerance, say 5% or even 1%, may not make much difference.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">10% resistors and 20% caps were pretty much the standard back in the day.

I started doing TV repair at about age 12, my uncle had given me an old ham radio electronics course. I think it was NRA, National Radio Association or something like that.

Anyway, those component values held for most 60's and 70's electronics. 5% resistors didn't become popular till Japan figured them out seems like 70 or so...American manufacturers were still using 10% carbon comp resistors, Japanese had 5% carbon films. The beginning of the loss of American electronic supremacy...


High end stuff may have had better components earlier, I am talking the majority of consumer and industrial electronics.

[scott fitlin]

Oldguy, I have to say this one thing. I have a bunch of old AB carbon comp resistors, I also have stock on carbon films from the 80,s. I also have an arcade, so I always have had electronic parts on hand.

Anyway, I have an expensive, accurate Fluke meter, and my older resistors always measure pretty dead on. The newer ones, the stuff i buy now, does not! A 56K, 1/2w carbon film from the 80,s measures 56K on ALL of my meters, I have a few, and the stuff I get now, carbon film 5% 1/2w 56K will measure 54.6, 54.1, etc! But never dead on!

Same for my old AB carbon comps, a 22K measures 22K, and an Ohmite Little Demon carbon comp is always a thousand ohms off.

I omce went down the block to another amusement operators place, to use his meter, I thought I must be going crazy! Same thing, the older rsistors measure perfect, the new ones are within tolerance spec, but exactly what they mark them to be.

1% Metal films are always exact, but I dont always care for their sound.

But I swear that the older resistors tolrances are more to spec.

[scott fitlin]

I meant NOT exactly what they mark them to be!

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by scotty j:
Oldguy, I have to say this one thing. I have a bunch of old AB carbon comp resistors, I also have stock on carbon films from the 80,s. I also have an arcade, so I always have had electronic parts on hand.

Anyway, I have an expensive, accurate Fluke meter, and my older resistors always measure pretty dead on. The newer ones, the stuff i buy now, does not! A 56K, 1/2w carbon film from the 80,s measures 56K on ALL of my meters, I have a few, and the stuff I get now, carbon film 5% 1/2w 56K will measure 54.6, 54.1, etc! But never dead on!

Same for my old AB carbon comps, a 22K measures 22K, and an Ohmite Little Demon carbon comp is always a thousand ohms off.

I omce went down the block to another amusement operators place, to use his meter, I thought I must be going crazy! Same thing, the older rsistors measure perfect, the new ones are within tolerance spec, but exactly what they mark them to be.

1% Metal films are always exact, but I dont always care for their sound.

But I swear that the older resistors tolrances are more to spec.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think we are in agreement.

Bear in mind you are referring to 5% films as "older". Those were most likely Japanese. And Japan manufacturing was following a "zero defect' policy.
Many times the same resistors were sold as different tolerances, just the better ones were spot checked more often. So yes they would be similar and often better than marked.

And AB stuff is good- but most "Made in USA" stuff had cheaper than AB parts.


Most American made resistors in the early '70's were still 10% carbon composition. Most stuff with films was Japanese parts. Product may be labeled Made In USA but that doesn't mean 100% of it was.

USA ruled the roost in the 50's and 60's, but by 1970 Japan was giving high end American manufacturers a rude awakening.

And I have to add, the newer resistors you are getting are almost certainly Chinese...getting better but not as good as Japan or USA in the 70's. I was addressing primarily 60's components, which really didn't change a lot for the USA till mid 70's.

Sadly- the policy Japan followed to become a world manufacturing giant was based on the ideas of an American. we ignored him, they listened.

Got an old Defender? If I ever make it out your way game's on.

[scott fitlin]

OK, I agree to a point,but, I have bought Yageo carbon films from Digi-Key, and supposedly Yageo is Made In Japan.

Now, heres the killer! I like the sound of carbon comps, so one day i found a japanese high end carbon comp, made to sound like the old AB,s, but with better, and closer tolerance. Riken Ohm. Pretty blue resistors, carbon comp, gold plated leads. They are pricey, ranging from 2 bucks and change a piece to 8 bucks a piece depending where you buy them from.

Anyhow, I like their sonic flavor, but a 56K also measures 55.4, never spot on! Its close enough, but it isnt dead on.

I got a bunch of old AB,s sitting right in front of me, 22K measures 22K, 33K measures 33K, and so on.

Todays stuff is always off. Even the grand high end Riken Ohms, and another high end carbon film called Kiwame!

I dont know, I sometimes think they screwed it all up these days, I really, really do!

BTW, 12 boxes arrived in my place today from Bill in Oklahoma City. Im installing 416,s and they sound great, despite what other people love to tell me are their known flaws and limitations! People tell me they dont get down low, and yet, they sound like they get down pretty darn deep to me!

[scott fitlin]

Defewnder? man your in the dark ages of prehistoric video!

Its all about redemption games now, the people want to win something for their money!

In the late 90,s when they stopped making really violent, and graphic ARCADE video games, the market for that went bust.

Now, its all vending, and ticket dispensing games of skill, for merchandise.